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Vanguard Founder Says Recession Odds At 75 Percent

Earlier today, CNN Money posted the answers to questions Fortune readers asked of John Bogle, the 78-year-old founder of mutual fund giant Vanguard. With $1.3 trillion in assets, Vanguard is now the second-largest mutual fund company. Bogle talked about the odds of a U.S. recession, the U.S. housing market, the subprime crisis, and challenges to the U.S. economy, among other issues.

What are the odds of a recession right now?

I would put the odds of a recession at 75 percent. This economy is very much consumer-based, and I believe that 70 percent of the GDP is consumer spending. That’s a very high number. Two things are happening there: Consumers have fewer resources because from 2001 to 2005 they took $5 trillion out of real estate. That will not recur. This is a big drop. We also see weakness in auto sales and retail spending - we even see it at companies like Starbucks. There is another, equally important factor in consumer spending, and that is confidence. Consumers are not going to spend if they are worried about the future.

Will the real estate market improve anytime soon?

It doesn’t look so good. I really don’t see it improving soon. At some point homes will have to be built. But right now there is not much incentive to build new places when there are so many old places on the market. When those lines cross I don’t know. It’s complicated by the fact that many people have gotten into ARMs [adjustable-rate mortgages] who didn’t know what they were doing. I don’t know what is going to happen to those people when lenders foreclose. When banks were community banks, they were more careful. But when banks sell loans in a bundle, they are clearly not going to be concerned about mortgage quality. So we have to have a better system in the future to make sure we have a much better element of credit quality in mortgages.

How does the U.S. subprime mess compare with other crises you have seen in your career?

I’d say the most similar example was the S&L crisis of the late ‘80s and early ‘90s. The issues were somewhat the same: Institutions borrowed short and lent long.

The immediate concern for most investors is the subprime market, but over the long term what do you see as the biggest challenges facing the U.S. economy?

Externally, we are faced with $1.5 trillion already poured into Iraq and Afghanistan. So you have enormous expenditures in a corner of the world that is important to us, but it is very unwise to think we can bring democracy to a place that doesn’t share our values. There are also the challenges from low cost production in China and India. At home, we have a tremendous future financial problem with the federal deficit. We’ll have to take action on Social Security someday. Government spending has gotten to the point where we will have to either cut spending or raise taxes. Another problem is this deadlocked Congress. And I see the quality and caliber of our presidential nominees, and I am not impressed.

It raises the question of whether this country is even able to run itself anymore.